This session was set up as three sets of free-form conversations between long-standing mentors and mentees: Kafui Dzirasa, M.D., Ph.D., Duke University, and Aza Allsop, M.D., Ph.D., Yale University; Eve Higginbotham, S.M., M.D., University of Pennsylvania, and Ahmara Ross, M.D., Ph.D., University of Pennsylvania; and Gilda Barabino, Ph.D., Olin College of Engineering, and Shereka Banton, Ph.D., Johnson & Johnson. Session moderator Wendy Yallowitz, M.S.W., Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, introduced the session by explaining the pairs would discuss how their relationships began and changed over time, challenges in the interactions, best practices, and lessons learned.
CONVERSATIONS WITH LONG-STANDING MENTORS AND MENTEES
Kafui Dzirasa, M.D., Ph.D., and Aza Allsop, M.D., Ph.D.
Dr. Allsop recounted the first meeting with his mentor Dr. Dzirasa at a Gordon Research Conference and seeing “this other Black guy working on a presentation.” Later, Dr. Dzirasa came to Dr. Allsop’s poster session to discuss it with him. “There was a resonance in the way he thought about the science,” Dr. Allsop recalled. “We started talking about our stories, it was affirming for me that this [career] is attainable and doable. And I can still be cool and attain it.”
Dr. Dzirasa added to the picture. He noted he is often the only or one of the only Black participants at a scientific meeting. In addition, Dr. Allsop’s Ph.D. advisor had asked Dr. Dzirasa to reach out to her advisee at the poster session, recognizing the importance of Dr. Allsop connecting with another Black man physician-scientist. Thus, Dr. Dzirasa said, in terms of a best practice, sometimes someone else has to take the initiative to make the connection. “So often we take for granted the magic that is supposed to randomly happen when two people come together, when the ‘magic’ was totally planned out by his Ph.D. advisor,” he said.
Dr. Dzirasa added that he has experienced failures, such as grants not won, and “for me, the most important part of mentoring him is get the losses into the win column.” He elaborated on this point: “This person reminded me of myself. All those things they didn’t fund me for, they will fund him for. There was an immediate instinct of creating a better version of myself. By that, I don’t mean to turn him into me, but I want him not to have all the challenges and run into the same barriers that I did. How can I help him to go further?”
They were at different institutions, and their second encounter was a phone call. Dr. Allsop was navigating the significant transition for physician-scientists when they leave their labs and go to medical school. He asked Dr. Dzirasa for advice. “My project was at a point that if I could just do a little bit more, it could be a higher-impact paper. I was thinking of taking a year off to do a postdoc,” he said. Dr. Dzirasa helped him map out a path and made the decision easier.
In helping Dr. Allsop navigate this major decision point for a physician-scientist, Dr. Dzirasa noted he was guided by advice from his own mentor who had previously challenged him to structure his own residency and research differently. “I was able to share how he [Dr. Allsop] could set himself up to have the best opportunities down the line. The postdoc capitalized on the research he was doing to extend his science product and also to navigate and negotiate for more research training later,” Dr. Dzirasa said. “At every step, I could help him think through transitions relevant 2 or 3 years down the line.”
They continued to meet and catch up at different meetings and conferences. Then, in what he described as “selfish motivations,” he realized, “I should be recruiting him to come to Duke.” Dr. Allsop did not ultimately go to Duke, but appreciated how Dr. Dzirasa “filled me up as much as possible with ego strength to prepare me to advocate for myself, no matter where I ended up.” For example, Dr. Dzirasa told Dr. Allsop that he could start a lab while in residency and be successful. Dr. Allsop recalled that
He [Dr. Dzirasa] served as an example and role model, and he shifted my framework. Part of being a great mentor is being willing to be vulnerable and really share failures and the successes, and all the factors—the stresses—that come along with that. He shared how difficult it was, too.
With Dr. Dzirasa’s guidance, Dr. Allsop developed a “game plan” and negotiated an independent research and residency program. He appreciated how Dr. Dzirasa balanced advice, friendship, and recognition that Dr. Allsop had to “find his own place,” which meant “being generous about not putting recruitment before the relationship.” To that, Dr. Dzirasa added, “I believe in being really honest and vulnerable about mentoring. I have had mentors who have tried to recruit me to different places, but I am not at any of those places. I made it very clear that he has the space to decide what is best for him.” Ultimately, Dr. Allsop called him to tell him he would be going to Yale.
Dr. Dzirasa stressed the importance of having a mentor or other person offering positivity. “If you see a prize fighter, they always have a coach next to them saying they are the best fighter to ever walk into the earth,” he commented. “I have had that at every stage of my career. It doesn’t matter if it is true, it propels me to be the best version of myself. We will both continue to fail, but we will both continue to push the envelope.”
Dr. Dzirasa also pointed out they have never been at the same institution. “The mentor-mentee relationship does not have to be contained within a physical setting.” He noted that their relationship began as two Black scientists at a Gordon Research Conference and, several years later, when they were both in Boston for a conference, they did so as “two Black M.D./Ph.D. scientists celebrating the launch of a career.”
Eve Higginbotham, S.M., M.D., and Ahmara Ross, M.D., Ph.D.
Dr. Higginbotham clarified that she considers herself to be Dr. Ross’s sponsor more than mentor. She elaborated, “I look for opportunities for Dr. Ross to shine. It’s about having her career at the top of mind at all times and determining in my own pathway what I can share with her and how I can leverage my decades of experience in ophthalmology to benefit her. As a sponsor, I am willing to put myself out publicly and endorse her, and I take the time to do that.”
Dr. Ross explained that she originally planned to go into oncology but realized it was not a good fit when she was already well into her M.D./ Ph.D. program. She enjoyed her ophthalmology rotation, especially using her clinical and research expertise to focus on glaucoma, where she realized she could make a difference for patients of color. Her mentor, Dr. Eydie Miller, introduced her to Dr. Higginbotham. Dr. Ross said her biggest initial challenge was nervousness, given Dr. Higginbotham’s stature in the field.
She provided an example of Dr. Higginbotham’s sponsorship. When Dr. Ross sought research funding, Dr. Higginbotham stopped her in the middle of a busy clinic to suggest she apply for a Harold Amos Faculty Development Award (see Chapter 6 for more information on this program funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation). Beyond the suggestion, however, Dr. Higginbotham introduced her to former recipients who explained the application process and expectations so that Dr. Ross could apply with greater focus and confidence. She added that when Dr. Ross received the fellowship (only the third ophthalmologist to do so in the his-
tory of the program), Dr. Higginbotham said it was one of the best feelings that she herself experienced in her career.
Dr. Higginbotham said time is a challenge in serving as a mentor or sponsor, but the need to increase minority representation in her field means she makes the time. She also noted the challenge in finding funding awards in surgical subspecialties. “When I learn about an opportunity in our field, I am proactive,” Dr. Higginbotham said, adding that Dr. Ross “always follows up. That is critically important for the relationship.” Dr. Ross agreed and emphasized, “Your mentor or your sponsor wants to see when they plant a seed, what sprouts from it. Staying in communication is important—it’s a relationship.” She also stressed that she prioritizes suggestions or requests she receives from her sponsor. “If Dr. Higginbotham asks me to do something, it is not ‘let me see if I can find the time to do it.’ It’s ‘when do you need it done?’” Dr. Ross said.
Dr. Ross added that, to her, they do not have a horizontal relationship but a vertical one. As Dr. Ross has progressed in her career and secured her lab, she said the relationship has changed, but acknowledged, “I still get nervous speaking with her. If I operate on one of her patients, I want the outcome to be perfect.” She said she used to agonize over the emails she sent, carefully checking for spelling or grammatical mistakes, but realized that “I don’t have time for long dissertation emails anymore. And I even text her!” She said she still has trouble calling Dr. Higginbotham by her first name, despite the latter’s invitation to do so.
Dr. Higginbotham agreed with the importance of touching base and communications. She also shared characteristics of effective mentors and sponsors drawn from a paper by Diane Magrane and colleagues (see Table 4-1).
Speaking as both a mentee and now a mentor to medical students, Dr. Ross said, “A lesson learned is that communication and availability are important in mentoring relationships. I have standing meetings with my mentees. I want to see them progress. And if I can’t help them do that, I want to get them to the next person who can help them progress.” She noted sometimes a mentee will debate about possible options on topics that range from career decision to patient care. “As a mentor, it is exciting for a mentee to question me,” she said. “It means they are actively thinking about the complexity of the topic. I also view it as an opportunity to grow myself.”
TABLE 4-1 Characteristics of Effective Mentors and Sponsors
| Characteristics of an Effective Mentor | Characteristics of an Effective Sponsor |
|---|---|
| Provide mentee/protégé with candid feedback Discuss strategies for managing interpersonal politics Encourage attendance at internal or external leadership programs Seek feedback about how they are doing in new leadership positions Set aside meetings on your calendar for regular mentoring Advise them on executive presence and communication Guide them in development of an intentional and strategic plan for advance Provide opportunity for shadowing. |
Publicly acknowledge their talents and achievements Publicly support when they make a difficult or unpopular decision Appoint to internal or external high-level committees/task forces Directly nominate for advancement and prestigious positions Assign them to an administrative role that tests new management skills, especially those with profit and loss responsibility Introduce them to individuals or groups to extend their professional networks Send in your place to important meetings, speaking appearances, and events Provide opportunities to present to executive groups Pave the entry to leadership by preparing other faculty for the new leader’s role Provide funding and resources for leadership program participation or coaching Engage team of advisors and consultants to advance the protégé Advocate with colleagues to advance the protégé |
SOURCE: Eve Higginbotham, Workshop Presentation, December 7, 2020, from Magrane et al., 2018.
Gilda Barabino, Ph.D., and Shereka Banton, Ph.D.
Dr. Barabino recounted a time when she was a new professor at Georgia Tech in 2007, after 18 years at Northeastern University, and assigned to three problem-based sections. Dr. Banton stood out as one of the few Black students, of any gender, across the sections, and her quiet leadership and brilliance made her stand out even further in her group of students. Dr.
Barabino asked Dr. Banton whether she wanted to undertake undergraduate research in her lab. “As Dr. Dzirasa said, part of my motivation was to create a better version of myself,” Dr. Barabino said.
Dr. Banton welcomed the connection with a Black woman professor. “I had the opportunity to show her what I could do and have a connection with someone I could view as a role model,” she said. “I understood, even as an undergrad, how difficult it is for women and underrepresented minorities to rise to the leadership she had achieved in engineering.” With Dr. Barabino’s encouragement, Dr. Banton undertook research in sickle cell disease. Dr. Barabino pointed out she chose sickle cell as her career-long research because she could apply engineering principles to a medical problem, especially for a disease that disproportionately impacts African Americans and provides an opportunity to give back to the community. In addition, the research is at the intersection of politics, race, and health. Through the research, engineers participate in tying technical solutions with policy and social sciences. She shared these observations with Dr. Banton, who also pursued sickle cell research.
Dr. Banton said she became interested in both the science and the policy and public health implications of the research. She noted that Dr. Barabino’s advocacy for her to be involved in areas that are atypical for most engineering students was critical and positioned her for success. Unusual for an engineering student, she interacted with patients and staff at the Medical College of Georgia and engaged in the public policy arena. Dr. Barabino supported her application for a fellowship with the Center for the Study of the Presidency and Congress. Universities send candidates from different departments to Washington, D.C., where they write papers about issues that the President and Congress can address. Dr. Banton’s paper on health policy and underrepresented minorities received the program’s most original paper award. She went on to an internship in the National Science Foundation’s Directorate for Education and Human Resources focusing on the progression of underrepresented minorities in science and engineering. She said she was able to bring the perspective of someone living through the experience. “It was a huge opportunity for me to be able to offer that real-life experience, what it is like to be a Black woman in engineering,” she said.
Dr. Barabino added:
The mentor-mentee relationship is a two-way street. I learned as much from [Dr. Banton] as she has learned from me. In the paper and some of the work that she was doing at the National Science
Foundation, one of the things she pointed out was the lack of progress despite interventions. I was on a committee looking at that issue and was able to use her report. There’s much that is interchangeable and much we can learn from one another, which is so exciting.
When she accepted a new position in New York, Dr. Barabino said one of the hardest things was telling her mentees and advisees, Dr. Banton among them. “We talked about what the move would mean not just for my career but for the mentees and the people in my lab,” she recalled. “I was so taken by her support of me and my career, when I was so worried about her career.” Dr. Banton moved to New York to complete her research in Dr. Barabino’s new lab, but the transition speaks to a larger issue of how these relationships adapt to change and upheaval, they both said.
Dr. Banton agreed with the characterization of mentorships as a two-way street. She recounted her reaction when Dr. Barabino announced she was leaving Georgia Tech. “I wanted to see her continue to blaze the trails that she was blazing,” Dr. Banton said of her mentor. “One of the aspects of really successful mentoring relationships is that in addition to its being a situation where the mentee stands to benefit, the mentor can benefit as well.” She explained she became invested in seeing Dr. Barabino’s career progress, and looked to play whatever role she could as Dr. Barabino’s student. She noted in academic circles, mentees and advisees represent their professor, and she sought to do this professionally.
Another role for mentors is to help mentees navigate external factors, said Dr. Barabino, and she helps her mentees with the socialization skills needed to succeed in the profession. She said she tries to be as transparent as possible about her own experiences in order to guide the experiences of Dr. Banton and others. Speaking of the external factors, Dr. Banton added, “One of the realities about the absence of Black people or any group is an assumption about the competence or the innate talent of that group. From the student perspective, it was important to have a role model to see that assumption is not true…. Having Dr. Barabino in my support system and network has been extremely helpful in countering outside perceptions.”
DISCUSSION
The discussion began with a question about best practices in seeking a mentor. Dr. Dzirasa suggested identifying a potential mentor, then taking
the initiative, even if means approaching the person multiple times. “Gently and jokingly, I would say to learn to stalk a good mentor,” he said. That might mean finding yourself in the spaces where the person normally is and making the opportunity as easy as possible for the mentor. “In the long run, it is worth the time and effort,” he said. Dr. Allsop and Dr. Banton also suggested making a personal connection and not just being transactional to secure a recommendation. Dr. Ross suggested having a clear expectation of “what you want from a mentor.” She added, “Not every mentor or sponsor who helps you will be what you believe is nurturing. A lot of good mentors I’ve had are not interested in being my friend, they are interested in me achieving a certain goal.” Dr. Dzirasa also suggested the importance to recognize the value of both the mentor’s and the mentee’s time. “Every good mentor knows how to write a grant, and you don’t need 20 mentors to teach you to do the same thing 20 different ways.” Instead, he suggested, “Be introspective to figure out what you need from a mentor.”
In answer to a question from Ms. Yallowitz, Dr. Ross elaborated on why she considers Dr. Higginbotham a sponsor, rather than a mentor. “A mentor to me may be behind the scenes in terms of suggesting what I should do and might foster some relationships. A sponsor like Dr. Higginbotham has lobbied from her standing in the ophthalmology world on my behalf. She becomes my cheerleader, and she makes the connections.” Dr. Barabino commented that while the same person can serve as a mentor or sponsor, “one distinction is that sponsors usually are in a position in their careers to advocate at a higher level.” Dr. Dzirasa commented that he has sought people who can help him as both sponsors and mentors.
Discussion took place about the importance of having a mentor of the same gender, race, or other attributes. Based on his own experience, Dr. Allsop disagreed with the premise of a question by one attendee that strong personal relationships are more likely between women. Dr. Ross commented it is very rare to find one person who is a complete match; as she said, “That person does not exist, because that person is me!” For example, 4 years ago, she had her first child, and she is now experiencing a different career path than her mentor, a Black woman in her field who does not have children. Similarly, Dr. Allsop said he values the advice of his Ph.D. advisor, but they both recognized that she had a different path then he did. She “went out of her way to ensure the gaps were covered,” he said, such as by connecting him with Dr. Dzirasa.
Dr. Banton suggested getting a sense of a potential mentor’s vision to see whether there is a match of ideals and values. Sometimes, the panelists
acknowledged, the relationship is not a good fit. “I have been on both sides,” Dr. Dzirasa said. “As a mentor, I can ascertain how good a fit it is by how the mentee navigates my time and advice, and I have said to mentees that I think there may be someone else better aligned with their interests. From my end, trying to seek mentorship, I assume that maybe one out of five will pay off, but that is more than enough to shape my career. I try not to internalize failure.” Regardless of how the mentor and mentee came together, Dr. Barabino said, “You may need to cut ties. Extended bad relationships do not work for anyone.”
Dr. Reede closed the session by thanking the participants for sharing perspectives and their authenticity. “What is very clear is that each of you have formed long-term relationships built on trust and understanding.”
REFERENCE
Magrane, D., P. S. Morahan, S. Ambrose, and S. Dannels. 2018. Competencies and practices in academic engineering leadership development: Lessons for a national survey. Social Science 7(10): 171. DOI:10.3390/socsci7100171.
